Gentlemen,
Just to drop out of character for a moment, I'm really, really thinking that we need a map here; even a rough one would be better than none.
What do you all say?
I'm more than willing to be cartographer.
If you think we could proceed, please drop a comment as to where you think your statelet sits in relation to the others.
For myself, I feel that for the purpose of this exercise Alzheim holds a position not unlike that to Alsace, with an outlet to the sea in the North, and a common border with Vulgaria to the south-east comprising a land frontier and a shared (rather large) lake.
Alzheim also holds a small territory in northern Italy of which Augustus II Rex is King - hence his title. He is merely the Kurfurst of Alzheim.
Where are you all?
All the best,
Greg
(aka A2R, KiA)
3 hours ago
14 comments:
I think this map is an excellent idea. My character is coming for a state visit and what if I can not find my way? Disaster!
Excellent idea Greg!
I had always thought Vulgaria was land locked and mountainous with rivers, forests lots of small villages, lakes and one rather largish town. Clearly we have a common border with Alzhein near a fairly large lack, perhaps only the lake is a border. I had also thought that it was situated somewhere between Russian, Austria, Prussia and the Ottoman Empires.
Donald~
I've sort of pictured Saxe-Bearstein as being the south-western corner of Saxony; with eastern Franconia being Stagonia.
Thus we are to the east of the Hessian states; north of Bavaria; northwest of Bohemia; southeast of the rest of Saxony; and somewhat south of Brandenburg Prussia.
-- Jeff of Saxe-Bearstein
I disagree with a detailed 'map'.
Most of our 'countries' are imaginary and may intersect or overlap in impossible ways.
I suspect that a better system would be to pick a fixed 'real world' point or region, like bohemia or Prague and then describe our lands as some direction and relative distance from that point or around that region.
Otherwise there will be disagreement over the multiple overlaps (something that could be entertaining, but also a difficulty not connected to the Emperor vs. Elector concept).
For example, my own Mieczyslaw would be to the north-east of Bohemia with a 'spur' extending to the east of Bohemia to a point somewhere south alongside Transylvania. The northern edge is along the Baltic coast and there is a port there at an imaginary river delta of the Brass River.
I do not have a 'fixed' map yet organized for Mieczyslaw since I am still working out the details.
Mieczyslaw would overlap much of Poland and intersect with Lithuania and parts of the Duchy of Prussia. This would make parts of Mieczyslaw coterminus with bits of Stokes Schwartz's imaginary Grand Duchy of Stollen.
This is just one example, I have not read closely of all the other bloggers' nations, but I suspect similar conflicts would arise.
Finding one's way in this imaginary world is easy, just write it in!
Murdock makes a valid point on the overlaps. And that's not even dealing with the somewhat counfounding difference between Frankzonia, Frankfurter, and the real Frankfurt :>
At the same time, I see what you're looking for as far as placing the different states to figure out who has to pass through whom to get where and who's a near neighbor and who isn't. I know my state of Hesse-Engelburg is "somewhere in the Hessian area", with Ober-Schweinsberg (and its present fractured political landscape) to the south. This puts Saxe-Bearstein somewhere to the west or southwest. Hesse-Fedora and Hesse-anything else ;) should be generally in my area.
Maybe one option would be a "bubble map" of sorts, with states represented as "bubbles" that either have lines connecting them or share a border along the bubble edge.
Jonathan,
I think that Saxe-Bearstein should be to your east (not west). Admitttedly, Saxony sort of slithered around over the centuries, but I think that at this time, most of Hesse was west of Saxony.
The "bubble map" idea is a good one, by the way . . . and perhaps countries like Vulgaria and Mieczyslaw, which claim a similar territory, should border on each other and perhaps find reasons to at least rattle sabres at each other.
Finally, let me note that Stagonia (Saxe-Bearstein's historic enemy -- also run by me) is almost certainly responsible for anything bad that happens in 18th century Europe (just ask any Saxe-Bearsteinian).
-- Jeff of Saxe-Bearstein
Hi Greg,
Good idea! Stollen, Zichenau, et al are off by themselves to the northeast of Frederick's Prussia, occupying roughly 1000 square miles or so of territory between eastern Prussia, Courland, Poland (before the partitions), and Russia. Exceedingly peripheral to Central Europe!
No outlet to the sea, though the Greater and Lesser Zwishen rivers flow northwest in the direct of The Gulf of Riga. No mountains, but plenty of sandy hills, lakes, pasture and pine/birch/aspen/alder forrest. Fairly typical "Baltic" landscape and climate -- short summers, COLD winters. Let me know if you need anymore details.
Best Regards,
Stokes
Stokes,
Actually it sounds like Stollen may be somewhat close to Mieczyslaw (indeed perhaps overlapping it), as well as possibly Alzheim and maybe Vulgaria.
All of you seem to be set in Eastern Europe anyway.
-- Jeff
I pictured Saxe-Huack occupying the same area as the modern state of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
I also like the idea of the "Einsteinian Map." After all, everything is relative...
Hesse-Fill-in-the-blank is on or about the Rhine, so generally west of all those little Saxe-Whatsits. That's why Bogey met Ilsa in eastern Fedora.
Ed
Right-o Gents, a bubble-map it shall be.
I'm not going to put un much detail at all; I'll merely work out the rough relationships which each state bears to the others... overlaps included!
Naturally I'm doing this for entirely selfish reasons - I was getting confused!
I'm a bit busy at the moment with this and that, but I'll put something together over the weekend.
Keep those East of the sun, West of the moon cartographical details coming in.
Regards,
Greg
Uber Grunshuffen was originally in the area of Wurzburg (but obviously on our own map which was only slightly similar to the real world), so that is the area where iv'e always envisioned it. Total size (maximums) 60 miles east/west and 30 miles north/south. Bordered along the south by Unter Gruntshuffen - a smaller but vilanous state.
Steve
Total size is a good note to make. Yet it made me realize I have little idea of what distances are like in Europe. According to Google, the region of Hesse-Kassel in 1864 was around 3000 square miles. Modern day Hesse state is around 8-9000 square miles. One of the larger districts is around 750 square miles. The province of Hesse-Nassau under the Prussians into the early 1900s was around 6000 square miles.
So this leaves me wondering what's a reasonable size for my state.
Have a look at my blog, the figures for the size are shown on it (basically I back engineered it from the size of army I wanted, which gives you the size of population, which gives you land area.
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