Saturday, March 29, 2008

More Mappe thoughts

Hello again everyone!

Whew there are many more names to work on here, and I thought I should try to see what consensus there is before pressing on.

I have a VERY ROUGH draft map started based on the Empires in Arms (EiA) map from the Avalon Hill game of the same name.

It covers the same primary territories and has really great detail, I am only going to upload a 'fuzzy' version right now, but rest assured that the bigger one has great detail and plenty of room for us to 'adjust' it.

What I am asking is for our good moderator here, Jeff, to perhaps post in a little poll so that those here can have some time to ponder and respond.

Simple question, perhaps not so simple an answer (at least as I had first thought).

"Do you want to have a detailed map for this part of imaginary Urope?"

answers of Yes, No and Maybe or conditional could be put in I suppose, but I shall leave that to Jeff and others who might want to respond to this post.


tradgardmastare said...

I would vote yes for a detailed map. Many thanks for your work.

tradgardmastare said...

I have always imaginged Tradgardland to be on the coast just under where the H of Hamburg is on the map - roughly that is!

Byrhthelm said...

Yes, go for it. I have already staked a claim to Ober Nord Westfalen's territory (see map on that blog) and I can foresee some tricky negotations with the Tragdaremaster! (If they fail, hey, what are armies for?)


Snickering Corpses said...

I'm not sure a detailed map is really possible. The primary problem is that too many of us have overlapping territorial claims, not only for our primary countries, but for secondary states as well.

Hesse-Engelburg is actually quite a large state, covering generally much of the territory of Hanover. Which creates a problem, since Hanover is an existing nation in several of our histories, always of course ruled by the English/Britannian/etc king.

I know Arthur just by himself has two Frankfurts, Frankzonia and Frankfurter, and I'm pretty sure at least one other person has a country there.

Martin said...

Hi Murdock,

I would vote yes, and I agree with Byrthelm. Any "territorial disputes" would provide a rich source of conflicts, negotiations, and story lines. It reminds me of a quote I heard about the Middle East, but it also seems appropriate here too. It went, "They have too much history for their geography."

Capt Bill said...

You have taken on an intersting and complex assignment. It should spur a few border disputes thay will provide ample fodder for conflict. The Reich Duchy of Beerstein is located in the eastern part of Hungry. Are borders are constantly shifing as conflicts arise and we are always willing expand as opportunities arise.

Capt Bill said...

You have taken on an intersting and complex assignment. It should spur a few border disputes thay will provide ample fodder for conflict. The Reich Duchy of Beerstein is located in the eastern part of Hungry. Are borders are constantly shifing as conflicts arise and we are always willing expand as opportunities arise.

abdul666 said...

Is a detailed *physical* map really incompatible with a 'bubble' political one -this later reflecting the 'traditional claims' of the various rulers?

Monte-Cristo *never* appears on a map: it always hides under some caption...

Frankfurter said...

yes I've been running a sort of two headed monster ... but lately things have worked out so that I can sort of reconcile the two a bit.
On the other hand, long ago my beloved pointed out that any place with a really active population would generate diverse time lines and be very multidimensionally complex. So the fact that maybe another player has Frankfurt as his capital too ... but some how we never seem to meet each other too close to the city, would be perfectly sensible!
Also, when I finally broke down to esearch the "historical" Frankfurt, I came across a reference that at the mid 18th century there were something like 4000 (four bleeding thousand!) "Autonomous" sovereignties within greater Germany etc.
For instance, in a recent PBS series on Catherine the Great, she came from a family I'd never heard of which ruled a principality I'd never heard of and was connected to a pile more of such.
As a result, the "overlap" and interpentration of countries in that place and time could only be "accurately" represented by literally showing these places on top of each other ....
However, I suspect that Hesse Homburg and I are about to have a serious clash .. .... as there's a Homburg not 50 miles from Frankfurt ...

billb said...

i have looked at a couple of maps of germany prior to its unification into a single nation. there are all kinds of little and big states. some of them consist of several separate areas. there are also more than one city of frankfurt. frankfurt am main is the better known one. the other one was mentioned in a cold war board game by spi.

MurdocK said...

Excellent & lively discussion Gents, this is one topic that always seems to generate the most 'energy'.

I am going to peck away at the map project, though not everyone appears to have 'location' data to work from...and some are new to this forum, so they may not have thought about such things yet.

Bluebear Jeff said...


Sorry, I strained my back doing something I probably shouldn't have tried without my back support (gee, that's happened before hasn't it? You'd think I would learn . . . but not yet).

Anyway I'll try to see about setting up a poll later.

As you know, Saxe-Bearstein occupies the basic area of Bohemia; and Stagonia is vilely entrenched in Bavaria.

I'll try to call later about Sunday.

-- Jeff

Fitz-Badger said...

If you can fit everyone in that's great. I suspect there will be plenty of overlap, but that need not be cause for conflict if the parties involved want to pursue other conflicts. And proximity or lack thereof shouldn't preclude conflict if so desired. In other words, a cool-looking map would be great, but don't let's get bogged down in geography and map movement and such when it comes to the gaming. If 1 or more gamers want a battle, no matter what the map says, let it be so. :-)

By the way, I found a cool site with lots of old maps, including many from the times and (real world) places we are talking about and/or mimicing:
Look for the Maps of Europe

Der Alte Fritz said...

Over lapping territorial claims? Hmm, sounds like a reason for war (games). Bring it on. Good luck with the project.

Byrhthelm said...

:-( "Error, Page not found on this server"


Oh, well. ce n'est pas magnifique, mais c'est la guerre.

David said...

For that map link, try:

Unless the blog truncates this one, too!

And yes, I think a map of some sort would be very good; I'll have to dig out the references in the discussion with Arthur about the battle which identified exactly where Tippelbruder is. :-)


David said...

Whoops, yes, the blog truncates that link too. Instead go to:

and click on the Cartoteca tab, then click on the links within the page that takes you to.



Byrhthelm said...

Yay! That works, thank you David.

tidders said...


detailed map if possible; tricky problem; but a nice challenge

The issue of 'overlap' will be the main problem.

I suggest you do a post asking everyone for their approx. geographical position in Europa

then see what you end up with when trying to fill out the map

-- Allan

MurdocK said...

Thank you Alan,

After reviewing the states/locations from the 'old' map I shall likely post another draft of the map then call for those whom are 'missing' to bring forward their own versions of where their 'imagi'-nation is located.

abdul666...I have plans to locate Monte-Cristo..snicker...

Frankfurter said...

For detailed maps of the Eastern Europe during the later 19th century, which I’ve found very, very good for seeing what’s where on a decent scale, this genealogy group has a fantastic collection.

When I actually go searching for an exact location, I like to use Multi-maps, as they have detailed world wide maps down to a couple of hundred yards. Then, I jump to their aerial photograph set which is the same map, scale, but an aerial photo of the site!

Now Tipplebruder was to be riverside in the Wodinwald ... right?
so I found a nice river bend north of Eschau, just before Unteraulenbach.

If you go up the Main River, pass Afschenberg and down South to Erlenbak am Main .... Eschau is in the mountains to the East. It’s on some little river, and up river is Uneraulenbach, and a bit soutwest of that is a little bend in the river with some houses, but no name in modern times ....


Frankfurter said...

Also towards Bravaria would be Gruntshufen,, or something like that, and Wurstembrug?

Frankfurter said...

The “Bubble Map # 5" has a lot of data in a manner which would be quite useful for our gaming Simply plugging in the new names in their relative positions would work fine. ...

Also, there’s an old schematic map on Who’s Who and What’s What ...

Capt Bill said...

After reviewing the circle map, I believe the Reich Duchy of Beerstein is bounded by Alzhein to the north, Vulgaria to the east, Lagerburg Slobbovia to the south, and Leder Hosen to the west. Thank you for your outstanding effort.

MurdocK said...

Thank you Arthur, the 'bubble maps' were my first real attempt at this project...back when you could keep all the names on two hands!

More will be done, how soon I cannot say.